Tom 2,492 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I'm aware I'm raking up an old grave of one of KM's most controversial threads of last season, but I think this year it's a decent topic of debate, particularly as we will have another week or so before the Barnsley thread pops up. It's safe to say that, 11 games in, it's not going how we wanted it to. I'm certainly not calling for the manager's head, but at the same time, if we don't start to see some big changes soon, we will have a hell of a lot of ground to make up, which is pretty unforgivable given the squad we have. Even assuming we are generous and allow the 'team takes time to gel' excuse to forgive some of our early games, that can no longer be acceptable in mid-October. So here's what I think we need: 1. A settled XI. Despite what you may read on FMTTM, if you look at Karanka's teams in 14/15 and 15/16, he actually didn't tinker that much with his starting line-ups. Yes, he juggled Downing/Stuani/Adomah around in that second season, and switched Nugent/Kike/Rhodes around, but if you look at the appearance stats, at least 8 of the 11 were pretty much nailed on starters game in/game out. Monk needs to do this, and that includes formation. I'm all for a manager being flexible, but we should eally sort out our Plan A before we start looking for alternatives. 2. Leaders in the side. I think Gibson will be a fantastic captain one day, I'm just not 100% sure he is at the moment. It's no coincidence that the team that got relegated in 2009 did so in part because Southgate wanted a young team (Marlon King was the only player over 30 in that squad, and he was on loan). I'd be lying if I said I was the biggest fan of any of Leadbitter, Downing or Friend, but I think having all 3 of these experienced heads out of the side at the same time is an error. Against Brentford, Randolph was the only player over 30 on the pitch, and is also the most vocal, but there's only so much he can do from the 6 yard box. 3. Lewis Baker to have a position. This lad has the potential to be our best player. The reason I think we haven't seen it yet is because he's been expected to play as a No.10, which he isn't. Against Norwich every time Britt drifted out wide, Baker should have been busting his balls to get into the box and fill in, but he was hanging back, because he's spent his entire career playing as a deep-lying playmaker. He either needs to learn that he has to push on, as with two CMs behind him there's no reason not to, or we drop one of them and play him deeper. 4. Any off-field stuff to be sorted. This is conjecture, so I'm not saying this is gospel. We know that the last year of AK's tenure was marred by off-field issues, and I can't help but feel it's still going on in some way. Who is our assistant manager? Why are Mejias and Guedioura not being considered for selection even in U23 games or the cup? Why is Ayala so out of favour? Where the heck is Agnew? I can't help but feel this all contributes to a slight unrest in the camp, even if on the surface everyone is getting on and all that. Borodane (I think it was) jokingly said a gathering at Grant's house was needed, but I think there's something in that. We need the togetherness off the pitch to breed the confidence on it. 5. A back to basics approach. I hate the phrase, but I can't find better words for it. Dael Fry needs to know that he can just knock the ball out for a throw in if he's under pressure. If Gibson isn't 100% certain that Randolph is going to come for a ball - don't risk it, get rid. With Gestede out there's less success in going long, but we still have Johnson, Traore and Assombalonga, none of whom are midgets, and all of whom are quicker than most centre backs in this division. When nothing else is working, why not give them something to chase? Sure it might end up with their keeper, but it's better than losing it in the centre circle as another convoluted move breaks down. Anyway, what are everyone else's thoughts on how to fix this stuttering season? Do we need a new shape? A new tactic? A new manager? Or just a bit of luck? By the way, any name calling or personal attacks on this thread will be deleted, regardless of how salient the points are. Link to post Share on other sites
Barticus 29 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Agree with a settled side, not just in personnel but in formation, no idea about off field stuff and agree to a certain amount on more experience, I would go with Randolph Christie Fry. Gibson. Fabio Clayton. Leadbitter Bamford. Baker. Braithwaite Assambalonga Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I might give a bigger response later. But I do agree about Baker. I was very much considering in my previous line-up guess whether to drop Howson or Baker for Braithwaite. I chose Baker because Howson had such a good game against Fulham and the sooner he settles the better. But the idea being that Clayton and Baker would operate as the two rather than Clayton and Howson. As you say, he didn't get anywhere near Britt in the Norwich game. Instead of chancing himself with a late run into the box, he sat on the edge of it waiting for the ball to come to him there instead. He's more comfortable with the ball at his feet and the best way to utilise that is further back. If that means going for more of a 4-3-3 (which to be honest, I thought based on the last pre-season friendly that we would once Braithwaite came back) with a team looking like this, then so be it: Randolph Christie Fry Gibson Friend Howson Clayton Baker Traore Britt Braithwaite I really thought the formation worked excellent in that game until we started to ring the changes. I suppose it was more of a 4-3-1-2 with Braithwaite operating behind Britt and Bamford but whatever it was, it worked a treat and it looked like what we had been preparing for when the season started. For whatever reason, that's never come back into play really since then. Link to post Share on other sites
"KM" 1,656 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Yes Tom! Glad to see my legacy still lives on. :D I'm still here guys just extremely busy. Link to post Share on other sites
sanddancer 1,964 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I might give a bigger response later. But I do agree about Baker. I was very much considering in my previous line-up guess whether to drop Howson or Baker for Braithwaite. I chose Baker because Howson had such a good game against Fulham and the sooner he settles the better. But the idea being that Clayton and Baker would operate as the two rather than Clayton and Howson. As you say, he didn't get anywhere near Britt in the Norwich game. Instead of chancing himself with a late run into the box, he sat on the edge of it waiting for the ball to come to him there instead. He's more comfortable with the ball at his feet and the best way to utilise that is further back. If that means going for more of a 4-3-3 (which to be honest, I thought based on the last pre-season friendly that we would once Braithwaite came back) with a team looking like this, then so be it: Randolph Christie Fry Gibson Friend Howson Clayton Baker Traore Britt Braithwaite I really thought the formation worked excellent in that game until we started to ring the changes. I suppose it was more of a 4-3-1-2 with Braithwaite operating behind Britt and Bamford but whatever it was, it worked a treat and it looked like what we had been preparing for when the season started. For whatever reason, that's never come back into play really since then. I would agree with 4-3-3 if we were more confident and fluid moving the ball, therefore I would try a a 3-5-2 . A 4-4-2 would indicate a lack of faith and a step back. To be honest I lean towards a more stable set up regardless of formation and only because what I have seen so far just seems to unsettle the players. Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,243 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Consistency breeds confidence. 100% agree that we need a settled side, with a settled formation. Randolph Gibson Christie Clayton Braithwaite Assombalonga These are guaranteed starters. I'd add Ayala, Leadbitter, Bamford for stability. I agree with Tom regarding Lewis Baker i think he can be really influential but i think you have to play Braithwaite centrally. A glimpse in to Monk's dilemma's i suppose.. Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Not sure I agree on Baker, his best football at Vitesse was in the number 10 position and every Chelsea fan I've seen talk about him says he struggles when played deep. Link to post Share on other sites
Essuuaitch 330 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 good opening post, Tom. as ive said in a recent thread we seem to be most confortable with a 4231 set up .especially in the first two aspects that should improve and settle us defensively. the ongoing problem is finding the right players to click in the attacking side of it ,and we are perhaps currently overloaded with players that like to either hang to far back or have better attributes as front men, We have no one except Traore that runs directly from centre midfield to central attack with the ball and he is simply not intelligent enough to link the two areas at present in his developement . therefore i would slightly tweek the 4231 into a 42121 with the attacking side being a diamond formation. the big hole that needs filling is finding which player we currently have that can carry the ball forward and influencing matters in that rear part of the diamond. if we cant find someone capable it should be priority in january. Maybe Baker or Howson . so........................................Randolph Christie............Ayala/Fry.....................Gibson.............Friend/Fabio Clayton....................Leadbitter/Baker Howson/Baker Bamford/Adama...................... Braithwaite/Johnson Assombalonga/Fletcher Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmy 140 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Great post Tom! Agreed with a lot of points except for the disharmony that you put forward (I know you said conjecture). It's conjecture on my behalf but I think the general atmosphere is quite good. I'm in no way ITK in any shape or form but twice a year I have a patient well connected to the club and I always pepper him with questions :) He said Monk is very well thought it from players and staff, and has apparantly created a good bond a***st the players. He also gave some insight into the Spanish/English divide from last year which was quite alarming. Interesting stuff. Monks got a lot to sort out in these two weeks. Players need to take some ownership as well as many have them have been a shower of turd. Link to post Share on other sites
Borodane 6,246 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I would probably go with that lineup in the next game Wilson. Baker needs to push on and Braithwaite would be a lot closer to britt to add some more pressure around the box. It'll also give Traore two strikers to aim for. Looking at our personnel I think 4-3-3 is the pragmatic approach. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Not sure I agree on Baker, his best football at Vitesse was in the number 10 position and every Chelsea fan I've seen talk about him says he struggles when played deep. Obviously it's early days yet but I think he's struggled in the #10 position here. I don't think he necessarily needs to be really deep, just at the very least playing deeper than a #10. It's where he seems to naturally position himself, particularly when I look at the Norwich game. When you look at Ramirez when he played the #10 role, he was almost an extra striker at times. Link to post Share on other sites
Borodane 6,246 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 If we only play with Britt we need a number 10 playing the Ramirez role but if we play britt plus another (Braithwaite likely) we don't need the number 10 to be as advanced. Still needs to push up though to offer a presence on the edge of the box. Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,243 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 It's worth remembering we don't just play one formation. We play one formation with the ball and one formation without. We've generally fallen in to a 442 defensively and a slight more expansive 4231 going forward than we used last season. Personally speaking i've seen a few instances where the switch to a tight defensive 442 hasn't happened quick enough and there's been a few holes for the opposition to exploit. Might also have something to do with our pressing game. I think it needs tweaking. Link to post Share on other sites
Beamish 0 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Britt, Bamford, Braithwaite and Baker all need to play as much as possible, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmy 140 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 It's worth remembering we don't just play one formation. We play one formation with the ball and one formation without. We've generally fallen in to a 442 defensively and a slight more expansive 4231 going forward than we used last season. Personally speaking i've seen a few instances where the switch to a tight defensive 442 hasn't happened quick enough and there's been a few holes for the opposition to exploit. Might also have something to do with our pressing game. I think it needs tweaking. Yeah I agree with this, good analysis. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now